The number '5' has a special mystical significance to Taoists (and to Chinese in general). There are the symbolic five mountains, five elements, five colours, five planets, five virtues, five emotions, five directions, etc. all of which have a mystic significance. Hence we see five Repulse Monkeys or Five Cloud Hands in the Tai Chi form. There are many instances where the numbers '1', '3', '5' and '7' figure prominently in the structure of Tai Chi.

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/tao-chi.html

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jb

JB, I moved this thread to "off topic". Next time please try to post in "push hands" area only topics directly related to tui shou". Thank you

andrey wrote:

JB, I moved this thread to "off topic". Next time please try to post in "push hands" area only topics directly related to tui shou". Thank you

OK andrey, you'll have to be patient -- I haven't quite mastered the technology yet.

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jb

jb wrote:

Hence we see five Repulse Monkeys or Five Cloud Hands in the Tai Chi form. http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/tao-chi.html

Mmmm. In Yang 24 Beijing form there are 4 Repulse Monkeys & 4 Cloud Hands. How many are there in your form?

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jb

jb wrote:

Mmmm. In Yang 24 Beijing form there are 4 Repulse Monkeys & 4 Cloud Hands. How many are there in your form?

If you are asking me Loaji Elu has 3 clouds hands, and 2 "Repulse Monkeys"
According grandmaster Chen Zhenglei the step depends on training space. It could from five to only one steps..

andrey wrote:

jb wrote: In Yang 24 Beijing form there are 4 Repulse Monkeys & 4 Cloud Hands. How many are there in your form? Loaji Elu has 3 clouds hands, and 2 "Repulse Monkeys". According grandmaster Chen Zhenglei the step depends on training space. It could from five to only one steps..

Yes, I have always thought that the best place to do clouds hand would be the beach, in Del Mar perhaps.

_________________
jb

jb wrote:

Yes, I have always thought that the best place to do clouds hand would be the beach, in Del Mar perhaps.

I do 3 steps in the back yard of the house I'm renting the room. It's good enough for me though:)

andrey wrote:

jb wrote: Mmmm. In Yang 24 Beijing form there are 4 Repulse Monkeys & 4 Cloud Hands. How many are there in your form? If you are asking me Loaji Elu has 3 clouds hands, and 2 "Repulse Monkeys" According grandmaster Chen Zhenglei the step depends on training space. It could from five to only one steps..

Traditionally, Laojia and Xinjia Yilu have three cloud hands and 2 repulse monkey movements in the forms. In Laojia Erlu or Xinjia Erlu (Cannon Fist) there is only one cloud hands and no repulse monkey movement at all.

Actually, the stepping in cloud hands or repulse monkey in either Laojia or Xinjia Yilu or Erlu form can be any odd number, depending on the individual's desire, space, or any other factor.

BTW, the repulse monkey name comes from the Yang style, in Chen style this movement is more commonly called whirl arms.

feihu wrote:

BTW, the repulse monkey name comes from the Yang style, in Chen style this movement is more commonly called whirl arms.

I know I used as named in Yang thing. Original name whirl arms is Dao Juan Gong

andrey wrote:

feihu wrote: BTW, the repulse monkey name comes from the Yang style, in Chen style this movement is more commonly called whirl arms. I know I used as named in Yang thing. Original name whirl arms is Dao Juan Gong

I figured you knew the name, just wanting to inform others of the fact.

Dao Juan Gong = Step Back and Whirl Arms on Both Sides

For future reference:

Laojia Yilu - Old Frame, First Form

1. Yu Bei Shi - Preparing the Form
2. Jin Gung Dao Dui - Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar
3. Lan Zha Yi - Lazy About Tying the Coat
4. Liu Feng Si Bi - Six Sealings and Four Closings
5. Dan Bian - Single Whip
6. Jin Gung Dao Dui - Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar
7. Bai He Liang Chi - The White Crane Spreads its Wings
8. Xie Xing - Walking Obliquely
9. Lou Xi - Brush Knee
10. Shang San Bu - Stepping Forward Three Steps
11. Xie Xing - Walking Obliquely
12. Lou Xi - Brush Knee
13. Shang San Bu - Stepping Forward Three Steps
14. Yan Shou Gong Quan - The Fist of Covering Hand and Arm
15. Jin Gung Dao Dui - Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar
16. Pie Shen Quan - The Punch of Draping over Body
17. Qin Lung Chu Shui - Blue Dragon Comes out of Water
18. Shuang Tui Shou - Push with Both Hands
19. Zhou Di Kan Quan - Fist Under Elbow
20. Dao Juan Gong - Step Back and Whirl Arms on Both Sides
21. Bai He Liang Chi - The White Crane Spreads its Wings
22. Xie Xing - Walking Obliquely
23. Shan Tong Bei - Flash the Back
24. Yan Shou Gong Quan - The Fist of Covering Hand and Arm
25. Liu Feng Shi Bi - Six Sealings and Four Closings
26. Dan Bian - Single Whip
27. Yun Shou - Wave Hands like Clouds
28. Gao Tan Ma - High Pat on Horse
29. You Tsa Jiao - Rub with Right Foot
30. Zuo Tsa Jiao - Rub with Left Foot
31. Zuo Deng Yi Gen - Kick with Left Heel
32. Shang San Bu - Advance Three Steps Forward
33. Zhi Di Quan - Punch the Ground
34. Ti Er Qi - Turn Body Round and Double Kick
35. Hu Xing Quan - Protect the Heart Fist
36. Xuan Feng Jiao - Tornado Kick
37. You Deng Yi Gen - Kick with Right Heel
38. Yan Shou Gong Quan - The Fist of Covering Hand and Arm
39. Xiao Qin Da - Small Catching and Hitting
40. Bao Tou Tui Shan - Cover Head and Push Mountain
41. Liu Feng Si Bi - Six Sealings and Four Closings
42. Dan Bien - Single Whip
43. Qian Zhao - Forward Trick
44. Hou Zhao - Backward Trick
45. Ye Ma Fen Zhong - Part Wild Horse's Mane
46. Liu Feng Si Bi - Six Sealings and Four Closings
47. Dan Bien - Single Whip
48. Yu Nu Chuan Shouo - Jade Girl Works at Shuttles
49. Lan Zha Yi - Lazy About Tying Coat
50. Liu Feng Si Bi - Six Sealings and Four Closings
51. Dan Bien - Single Whip
52. Yun Shou - Wave Hands like Clouds
53. Shuang Bai Lian - Waving Double Lotus
54. Die Jiao Da Cha - Shake Foot and Stretch Down
55. Jin Ji Du Li - Golden Cock Stands on Left and Right Foot
56. Dao Juan Gong - Step Back and Whirl Arms on Both Sides
57. Bai He Liang Chi - The White Crane Spreads its Wings
58. Xie Xing - Walking Obliquely
59. Shan Tong Bei - Flash the Back
60. Yan Shou Hong Quan - The Fist of Covering Hand and Arm
61. Liu Feng Si Bi - Six Sealings and Four Closings
62. Dan Bien - Single Whip
63. Yun Shou - Wave Hands like Clouds
64. Gao Tan Ma - High Pat on Horse
65. Shi Zhi Jiao - Waving Lotus
66. Zhi Dang Chui - Punch the Crotch
67. Yuan Hou Xian Guo - White Ape Offers Fruit
68. Dan Bien - Single Whip
69. Que Di Long - Sparrow Dashes Earth Dragon
70. Shang Bu Qi Xing - Step up to Seven Stars
71. Xia Bu Kua Hu - Step Back and Mount the Tiger
72. Zhuan Shen Shuang Bai Lian - Turn Body and Double Wave Lotus
73. Dang Tou Pao - The Cannon Right Overhead
74. Jing Gang Dao Zhui - Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar
75. Tai Ji Shou Si - Closing Tai Ji Form


Laojia Erlu (Old Frame, Second Form)

1. Yu Bei Shi - Preparing the Form
2. Jin Gang Dao Dui - Buddah's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar
3. Lan Zha Yi - Lazy About Tying the Coat
4. Liu Feng Si Bi - Six Sealing and Four Closings
5. Dan Bian - Single Whip
6. Hu Xin Quan - Protect the Heart Fist
7. Xue Xing - Walking Obliquely
8. Huei Tou Jin Gang Dao Dui - Buddah's Warrior Attendant Turns
Around and Pounds Mortar
9. Pie Shen Quan - Striking Down by Twisting Body Obliquely
10. Zhi Dang - Pointing to the Crotch
11. Zhan Shou - Chopping Hand
12. Fan Hua Wu Xiou - Overturning Flowers and Waving Sleeves
13. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
14. Yao Lan Zhou - Dragging the Waist and Hitting with the Elbow
15. Da Gong Quan Xiao Gong Quan - Waving Hands
16. Yu Nu Chuan Suo - Fair Lady Works the Shuttles
17. Dao Qi Long - Riding Dragon Backwards
18. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
19. Guo Bian Pao - Wrapping Fire Crackers
20. Shou Tou Shi - Beast Head Pose
21. Pi Jia Zi - Wearing a Frame
22. Fan Hua Wu Xiou - Overturning Flowers and Waving Sleeves
23. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
24. Fu Hu - Subduing the Tiger
25. Mo Mei Gong - Wipe the Brow Palms
26. Huang Long San Jiao Shui - Yellow Dragon Stirs the Water Three
Times
27. Zuo Chong - Left Thrust Kick
28. You Chong - Right Thrust Kick
29. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
30. Sao Tang Tui - Sweeping Legs
31. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
32. Quan Pao Chui - The Whole Cannon Fist
33. Yang Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
34. Duo Er Gong - Double Forearm Punches
35. Zuo Er Gong You Er Gong - Left and Right Forearm Punches
36. Hui Tou Dang Men Pao - Turning Around Forearm Punches
37. Wo Di Da Zhuo Pao - Punches under the Armpits
38. Yao Lan Zhou - Dragging the Waist and Hitting with the Elbow
39. Shun Lan Zhou - Hitting with Elbow
40. Wo di Pao - Side Lower Punch
41. Hui Tou Jing Lan Zhi Ru - Turning Around Elbows
42. Jin Gong Dao Dui - Buddah's Warrior Attendant Pounds the Mortar
43. Shou Shi - Closing the Form

Just an addon

LoaJia Erlu

1. Yu Bei Shi - Preparing the Form
2. Jin Gang Dao Dui - Buddah’s Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar
3. Lan Zha Yi - Lazy About Tying the Coat
4. Liu Feng Si Bi - Six Sealing and Four Closings
5. Dan Bian - Single Whip
6. Hu Xin Quan - Protect the Heart Fist
7. Xue Xing - Walking Obliquely
8. Huei Tou Jin Gang Dao Dui - Buddah’s Warrior Attendant Turns Around and Pounds Mortar
9. Pie Shen Quan - Striking Down by Twisting Body Obliquely
10. Zhi Dang - Pointing to the Crotch
11. Zhan Shou - Chopping Hand
12. Fan Hua Wu Xiou - Overturning Flowers and Waving Sleeves
13. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
14. Yao Lan Zhou - Dragging the Waist and Hitting with the Elbow
15. Da Gong Quan Xiao Gong Quan - Waving Hands
16. Yu Nu Chuan Suo - Fair Lady Works the Shuttles
17. Dao Qi Long - Riding Dragon Backwards
18. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
19. Guo Bian Pao - Wrapping Fire Crackers
20. Shou Tou Shi - Beast Head Pose
21. Pi Jia Zi - Wearing a Frame
22. Fan Hua Wu Xiou - Overturning Flowers and Waving Sleeves
23. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
24. Fu Hu - Subduing the Tiger
25. Mo Mei Gong - Wipe the Brow Palms
26. Huang Long San Jiao Shui - Yellow Dragon Stirs the Water Three Times
27. Zuo Chong - Left Thrust Kick
28. You Chong - Right Thrust Kick
29. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
30. Sao Tang Tui - Sweeping Legs
31. Yan Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
32. Quan Pao Chui - The Whole Cannon Fist
33. Yang Shou Gong Quan - Striking with Concealed Fist
34. Duo Er Gong - Double Forearm Punches
35. Zuo Er Gong You Er Gong - Left and Right Forearm Punches
36. Hui Tou Dang Men Pao - Turning Around Forearm Punches
37. Wo Di Da Zhuo Pao - Punches under the Armpits
38. Yao Lan Zhou - Dragging the Waist and Hitting with the Elbow
39. Shun Lan Zhou - Hitting with Elbow
40. Wo di Pao - Side Lower Punch
41. Hui Tou Jing Lan Zhi Ru - Turning Around Elbows
42. Jin Gong Dao Dui - Buddah’s Warrior Attendant Pounds the Mortar
43. Shou Shi - Closing the Form


By the way Jim could please post Xinjia postures as well?

andrey wrote:

By the way Jim could please post Xinjia postures as well?

I don't have those saved on my computer. I could find them on CXW's videotapes or from his book. But, that would take a lot of time though, as I would have to look them up and type them out. That really isn't something I want to do. Sorry.

Looks like while I was editing my post with the names, you posted Erlu. I haven't looked at your list yet, but will ... always interesting to see how others have the Chinese translated for comparison.

Andrey

I think you can find the names of Xin Jia here

http://www.taichicentre.com/formnames_83.php

but I am not absolutely sure I am right . It is called the 83 form in English

Maria wrote:

Andrey I think you can find the names of Xin Jia here http://www.taichicentre.com/formnames_83.php but I am not absolutely sure I am right . It is called the 83 form in English

Thanks Maria but when I click on the link I get an error "
You don't have permission to access /formnames_83.php on this server."