to QiKwanDo:
Have you ever tried taijiquan with good teacher?

No, I have never had the chance andrey, finding a class in my local area seems to be a little challenging. Also, knowing what type of tai chi to learn in confusing, as I only have general knowledge of tai chi. Infact I don't know if there are different types. I want to be sure I am learning a style that is genuine and not just cooked up by a westerner with pound/dollar signs in his eyes.

What advice can you give me?

I have also been looking during months for a good teacher.

Now I think I can recognize one. So here is the mean I use : ask him who is or who are his teacher(s)

A good teacher will always pay respect to his own. With an easy websearch you will find who those teachers are, and you will see that those teachers pay also respect to their own.

Bad teachers ( especially western ones) do not speak a lot of their teachers.

From time to time, all what you know is that their teacher is Chinese and nothing else. Or they emphasize on their own understanding, telling you they have a better understanding of taiji than the other one, and so on.

I also go through the links the teachers provide on their websites : with good teachers you can find other masters, begin a journey with no end in the field of martial art. With the bad teacher, you can go to the website of one of their student and from the student you come back to the teacher. You are very quickly in a dead end

What about the type of taiji, style is a better word, I think it depends on each one, and probably on the teacher you meet.

Many people prefer Yang style, personnally I prefer Chen style, but I cannot really explain why. It's just a personnal attraction to this style more than to another one.

QiKwanDo wrote:

No, I have never had the chance andrey, finding a class in my local area seems to be a little challenging. Also, knowing what type of tai chi to learn in confusing, as I only have general knowledge of tai chi. Infact I don't know if there are different types. I want to be sure I am learning a style that is genuine and not just cooked up by a westerner with pound/dollar signs in his eyes. What advice can you give me?

You are right QiWhanDo, today a lot of people are trying to sell the art having neither skill nor qualification to do so. I actually straggled myself sometimes looking for a good taijiquan teacher in my area. So here some tips which I used to look for a good taijiquan teacher.

1. I was looking for a native Chinese person
I'm strongly believe that in general Chinese know better they own art:)
2. I was looking for a person who studied under famous grandmasters.
By saying this I mean study indoor in China for long period of time, not during short seminars.
3. I was looking for a person who arrange seminar with famous grandmasters.
Grandmasters don't come just to anyone, most likely they come to their good students
4. I was looking for a person who can show me his skill practically not just theoretically.
After first private lesson with my teacher Jesse Tsao as a former fighter I was impressed with his practical skills, reaction, speed and controll


Now I'm not sure if you can always find a person who met all of those criterias but at least you can narrow your search.

As far as taijiquan styles goes there are four major ones Chen (original style from which taijiquan takes its beginning ), Yang (passed via Chen family taijiuqan), Wu (passed via Yang family taijiquan), and Sun (passed via Wu taijiquan). All of those styles are good; however, looking at your background I bet most of all you would like Chen style taijiquan.
There are a lot of good Chen masters in China such as Chen Zhenglei, Chen Xiaowang, Chen Xioxing, Zhu Tiancai, Chen Yu, Wang Xi'an, Feng Zhi-Qiang and others ..So you may look for people who studied with them for long time.

My recommendation is rowing.

I plan to get a new rower soon. After only 4 years of TJQ IMO my legs are about as hard as rocks. They could be stronger, but they are VERY strong.

My upper body does NOT match this. Im guessing that if I focused on doing a triple weighted Kwan Dao for the next 4 years I might get close...

But I think rowing will get me there faster.

Kuroyama wrote:

My recommendation is rowing. I plan to get a new rower soon. After only 4 years of TJQ IMO my legs are about as hard as rocks. They could be stronger, but they are VERY strong.

how low do you practice form?

Andrey

I cheat. DNA. Ive always had strong legs. training TJQ just gives them more of what they want. As far as how low... that depends on how much energy is in the tank, or how well Im moving.

If Im moving great but Ive already done 8 reps, I WONT be going very low.
If Ive only done 1-2 reps but Im moving like a blerg then Ill go higher and try to smooth out the problem.

It also helps that I weigh about 115kg. At that weight, a few reps is a good workout. Good enough to burn off 13kg from when I first moved here.

Kuroyama wrote:

Andrey I cheat. DNA. Ive always had strong legs. .

As far as I know people who taller and havier naturally have stronger leg; however, it doesn't necasserily means they have a good root. In turn, fundamentals of good root come from lowering center of gravity which implies on low stances (in respect of particular body height)..

andrey wrote:

Kuroyama wrote: Andrey I cheat. DNA. Ive always had strong legs. . As far as I know people who taller and havier naturally have stronger leg; however, it doesn't necasserily means they have a good root. In turn, fundamentals of good root come from lowering center of gravity which implies on low stances (in respect of particular body height)..

Lowering the center of gravity does not guarantee good root. You know better than me that in fighting, a low posture is not always a advantage.

The root comes from the ability to relax the upper body and the kua and relying on your legs more. If you follow taiji principles, you work your legs even in medium posture. Going lower will work on the flexibility and the joints more than the muscles.

alain wrote:

Lowering the center of gravity does not guarantee good root. You know better than me that in fighting, a low posture is not always a advantage.

Yes it is guarantee a better root. Think about that. When you defense against incoming force you sink your kua, then you must lowering your CG. When you try shoulder strike then you must lowering your CG. When you try leg sweep then you must lower you CG. When you move in order to remain rooted you must lower you CG..And so on and so on.

Quote:

The root comes from the ability to relax the upper body and the kua and relying on your legs more.

I know a lot of people in our group with relaxed in flexible in the upper body, but don't have a good root. It's easy showed in PH practice. Both flexibility and root are important, but If you think about it, a tree grows from the root, so the root comes first. If its root is weak no matter how flexible its on top it wont help to sustain a strong wind. In contrast, if the tree has the strong root and good flexible trunk it's not easily uprooted.

Quote:

If you follow taiji principles, you work your legs even in medium posture. Going lower will work on the flexibility and the joints more than the muscles.

Alain perhaps you don't understand what I mean. You can work in any height depending on your needs. In fact, in push hands I prefer to stay much higher then I would consider medium stance for practice. But here is big difference between applying and building. We make "wide circles" when we build, but we "narrow" them down when we apply. You cannot get flexible legs without stretching, but when you fight you don't stretch in front of your opponent.

Leg strength is one of the fundamentals taiji principles since the power comes from the legs, controlled by the waist, and manifested in hands (or other part of the body) If you want to practice taijiquan strictly for health you may just use higher stances all the time; however, for martial aspect you must include practicing low. Since we don't use brute force we don't strengthen our arms like some other style do. We rely on sensitivity and generate our power by the whole body, but to do so our body must be first well rooted. So we want to develop such ability in the very beginning.

You can argue that a lot of masters doesn't seem have low posture on pictures and video, but let me tell you something all of them already have a good root, so they can go as high as they wish.

Chen Zhaokui


Chen Fake (on the right)


Chen Xiaowang






P.S. If you don't believe me please ask Jesse about importance of low stance during the practice for martial benefits of taijiquan.

To have a good root, we have to "song kua", or relax the hip/kua muscles, not just bend the knees to lower the center of gravity. This is what makes the difference between strong legs and "taiji legs". A lot of athletes have super strong legs (they do one leg squats routinely), but they don't have rooting.

When the kua area is relaxed and the tailbone is tucked in, we need strong legs to support the weight, because the Taiji requirements prevent us to use all muscle groups, therefore putting more pressure on the thighs.

I stand by the fact that practising low for is for join flexibility, mainly to open the hip/kua joints. Again, strong legs do not guarantee a good low stance. The hip joints have to be really open so the butt does not stick out and the player stands firmly. For leg strength, Chen Zhenglei recommends one-leg squats (careful with the knee though).

Other systems like Sun, Xing-Yi, Bagua, don't put that much emphasis on low stance, and yet these guys have super strong legs. (try some bagua walking!). Once the kua is relaxed, the body weight puts more pressure on the thigh muscles, therefore building strong legs.

The rooting is also something dynamic. We stand on two legs, which is a totally unstable balance, and our body is constantly adjusting with micro-movements. A good root comes from the ability of the waist/hip/kua to adjust the structure quickly and smoothly to redirect and dissolve the incoming force and avoid tipping over. This is what makes Taiji an art and not just a contest of strength.

alain wrote:

To have a good root, we have to "song kua", or relax the hip/kua muscles, not just bend the knees to lower the center of gravity. This is what makes the difference between strong legs and "taiji legs". A lot of athletes have super strong legs (they do one leg squats routinely), but they don't have rooting.

Agree with you on that, but you just wrote yourself "not only" which implies that you still have to lower you CG

Quote:

When the kua area is relaxed and the tailbone is tucked in, we need strong legs to support the weight, because the Taiji requirements prevent us to use all muscle groups, therefore putting more pressure on the thighs.

Very true

Quote:

I stand by the fact that practising low for is for join flexibility, mainly to open the hip/kua joints. Again, strong legs do not guarantee a good low stance. The hip joints have to be really open so the butt does not stick out and the player stands firmly. For leg strength, Chen Zhenglei recommends one-leg squats (careful with the knee though).

We are talking about practicing low in respect of taijiquan training, not just some other exercisers to strengthen legs. So within taijiquan form low stances actually make your legs stronger while body remains flexible. As we talk about low stances during the from, they actually do train how to keep good alignment, balance, and limited flexibility; otherwise, what is the point of leg strength in respect of taijiquan? However, low stances are just a part of practice. I asked CZL about practicing in different stances, he recommended same as Jesse - to practice low, med and high. The lowest stance should be at the level that butt go below the knee

Look at shot footage of Chen Zhaokui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrAczAE66w0

Quote:

Other systems like Sun, Xing-Yi, Bagua, don't put that much emphasis on low stance, and yet these guys have super strong legs. (try some bagua walking!). Once the kua is relaxed, the body weight puts more pressure on the thigh muscles, therefore building strong legs.

I'm sorry Alain I'm interested mostly in Chen taijiquan, so I care less about what kind of methods other styles employ.

Quote:

The rooting is also something dynamic. We stand on two legs, which is a totally unstable balance, and our body is constantly adjusting with micro-movements. A good root comes from the ability of the waist/hip/kua to adjust the structure quickly and smoothly to redirect and dissolve the incoming force and avoid tipping over. This is what makes Taiji an art and not just a contest of strength.

I completely agree with you on that.

jb wrote:

Sports to supplement and reinforce Taijiquan 'Seek a balanced & reasonable training program' “Although Taijiquan is an exercise that helps maintain good health – like all other sports, it has some limitations. The most obvious limitation for Taijiquan is its lack of exercise for strengthening the arms and its lack of aerobic exercise for the body. For a comprehensive workout, those having the means and capabilities can select other appropriate sports to supplement and reinforce Taijiquan. To avoid over-fatigue and conflict in practice, make reasonable arrangements of your time and strength for different kinds of sports. Some sports can be done at regular intervals with Taijiquan, while others may need to be done at some other time.” Li Deyin. Taijiquan. (2004) Page 54. What sports do you do to supplement Taijiquan?

The above is an opinion, I share in part.....
Tai Chi is a beutifull martial art and good life's style. Personally i 'prepare for my self a cocktail made by:
tai chi (every day for about 30 minutes)
running or basketball (3-4 times at week)
diving (once in a week)

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