The Tai Chi Healthways Discussion Board

[vvanesse59]

I am looking into instructing a qigong class for our community college and trying to set up a short syllabus that would be good for a 1 hour once a week, 5-7 week program. I am thinking of zhan zhuang, 8 Brocades and short marrow washing as demonstrated on Ken Cohen tape. My goal is to describe/explain proper posture, breathing, yi, of zhan zhuang and for 8 Brocades explain connection of exercises to meridians. I am trying to envision taking an hour to run through/explain the various exercises: 10-15 min, standing; 10 minutes 8 Brocades (I have practiced quite a while but now have Jesse dvd - phenomenal!), perhaps 6-8 mins marrow washing (little short of an hour but I figure you need to "break" in between exercise groups to let it sift in). Lot of information but thinking repetition in each class will get folks started on qigong. Not wanting to overwhelm folks before they can get into it I wonder if this set could be taught in 1 hour segments/repeated.

Anyone have any ideas positive or negative on this sort of a program? Thanks Vic in IL

[Maria]

You have a lot of very interesting videos about qigong produced by Master Tsao, you also have the different qigong exercises compiled by the Chinese Health Qigong Association, Foreign Language press.

http://www.amazon.fr/Ba-Duan-Jin-Eight- ... 884&sr=8-1

it amazon France, but I suppose you can find them on amazon USa. They come with a DVD and a lot of explanations : key points, common mistakes, corrections and effects.

What about me, I am sorry, but I will never let somebody do with me what I have seen done by the man you were speaking about and I will never do it to someone else.

Maybe is he a Master, I do not know him, but if you cannot harm yourself with your own energy, in my opinion, you can harm the other ones.

I am not a master, so I will not take the risk

[vvanesse59]

Maria thanks for the input. My question was intended to design a short one hour program for community college students (of all ages) about qigong. I want to provide enough information about qigong to help beginners but not provide too much in 5 one hour discussion and training sessions. I suspect for a beginners program zhan zhuang and 8 brocades (I have Jesse's dvd on 8 brocades and am pleased with his description of the meridians being accessed during each of the forms) but just wondered if others had any ideas on a program.

[alain]

I think I would skip zhan zhuang. This is pretty static and boring for beginners, and it takes a good amount of practice to get the benefits (mostly strong legs and rooting). 8 piece brocade is I think a much better choice. There is movement in it, beginners won't feel tense doing it and they may get the benefits faster. Don't submerge the students with too much information too quickly, the practice has to be relaxed and fun. Humor and good mood are a very important part of a good Qigong practice.

My 2 cents.

[vvanesse59]

Alain, thanks. I appreciate your answer about standing being boring -- and it is really difficult to do properly. I am just having problems envisioning spending an hour on 8 brocades alone. Maybe I am overlooking the need to delve into meridians and what each exercise is working on as Jesse explains on his 8 brocades dvd and of course that would "eat up" some time. And from comments on my teaching of taiji a little more explanation is very welcome (beyond watch me mimic me on moves) As I work toward an hour long program I am starting to be able to visualize a good class without too many types of qigong. I will see as I am getting ready to draft an hour session and role play as though I had a class - may even get some "volunteers" from church or relatives so it will have some realizm. Vic

[andrey]

You may skip zhan zhuang for now but it's one of the fundamental exercisers.
It's not boring if you know what to do, it does however take time.

P.S. When I was a beginner Jesse strongly recommended me to stand in ZZ

[alain]

Hi Vic,

I realized that most of the classes I've been to were always a mix of Qigong and Taiji, and we never spent one hour on Qigong only. Trying to put myself in your shoes, I realized an hour is a long time, and I understand better why you are looking for variety

I think zhan zhuang may still be an option if you simplify it and make it short (i.e. a few minutes). I would focus on the posture awareness, and a few key points, like slightly bending knees, tucking in the tailbone and relaxing the hips. The goal would just be to learn about how changing a posture can help relax the upper body.

I tend to agree with you some explanations will be needed (what this posture is good for, etc), and also you may need to explain the posture in a lot of details, and make some corrections, either on some student (e.g. correct the shoulders) or showing yourself a wrong posture and a good one. Just don't let people stand too long in one posture, and relax between postures.

I don't have much experience of teaching only Qigong, these are just things that seem to make sense when I'm sitting in front of my computer ... I hope it helps though. Would be great if you could share later how the class went, what worked and what didn't ...

Good luck.

[vvanesse59]

Thanks for input. Yes, my experience has been the same in that qigong - 8 Brocades to be exact - was leadin (warmup) before taiji and that would work out fine. As you now see, I am trying a qigong only and trying to come up with how to do it. I do believe you hit the nail on the head with you response and what you laid out was pretty much what I was heading toward I just didnt visualize it being enough for an hour. However, I do agree that too much standing for beginners is just very demanding even if it werent boring. I am going to soon put together my little program and try it out to see if too much/too little for hourly session. I may then post it here for comments or curiousity before actually using it at college. I like to try role playing with programs before I actually do live -- I am schedule in first week of February so should have time to work out a neat litle program. Thanks to all Vic

[Maria]

I have been to a workshop : ba duan jin : a whole week- end 4 hours in a row.

Every 50 minutes we had 10 minutes rest to drink tea, or eat something, or relaxing. 1 or 2 times during the 50 minutes, the teacher was asking us to sit down and to speak about our feelings.

He was also saying : "hold on" and going from a student to another to correct the position

The lessons ended with ZZ, but not more than 5 or 10 minutes.

[vvanesse59]

Maria, thank you for sharing your experience. It helps to give more content to the class I am developing. Many ideas will hopefully allow me to help more people to know qi. Vic

[vvanesse59]

Andrey, I have understood the ZZ is cornerstone of qigong and that it is very important -- I have heard this many times and believe it myself. I have studied ZZ enough to know it takes much time to train the body/mind to stand for even short periods. Teaching posture, breathing and relaxation can be several teaching sessions by themselves. Thank you. Vic

[Isabelle]

Hi Vic,

I have attended qi gong classes where we also meditate standing or sitting. Warm up can also spend a lot of time. Depending on the age of your students, you may need to work on the warm up and flexibility more...!

I was wondering what you were referring to when talking about Bone marrow tape from Ken Cohen. could you explain? I hear it is a difficult part of qi gong. What books or tape are you using?
thanks,
--isabelle

[andrey]

Andrey, I have understood the ZZ is cornerstone of qigong and that it is very important -- I have heard this many times and believe it myself. I have studied ZZ enough to know it takes much time to train the body/mind to stand for even short periods. Teaching posture, breathing and relaxation can be several teaching sessions by themselves. Thank you. Vic

My personal opinion is that ZZ if trained properly can give a great advantage in overall taijiquan performance. During the last seminar Chen Bing gave pretty good insight about ZZ which actually enhanced my understanding of that exercise further.

I used to stand for an hour every day. I don't think it's necessary for people who interested only in the health aspect of taijiquan, so I think may be 10 to 15 minutes in ZZ could be a good ration time vs quality to exercise for health.

[vvanesse59]

Isabelle, the dvd I am referring to is -- "QIGONG:TRADITIONAL CHINESE EXERCISES FOR HEALING BODY, MIND, & SPIRIT" A complete Qigong exercise training program. Bone Marrow Purification Qigong to purge the body of toxic energy. Healing Sounds to stimulate and improve the functioning of the Internal Organs. etc. Kenneth Cohen is located in Colorado and author of The Way of Qigong. Book is excellent.

The exercise on the dvd for bone marrow purification is not as complicated as I understand it to be at higher levels of qigong but is basically the movements -- He does not delve to deeply into the theory so I dont believe anyone practicing it as he is instructing will develop any ill health as some teachers say can happen.

[vvanesse59]

I had my first qigong class last Tuesday. Classes are one hour in length, weekly for seven weeks. 8 Brocades and Tai Chi Ruler are being taught. (I had six students enroll – encouraging for first qigong only class.)

I start with defining a few terms like qi, yi abdominal breathing, etc. After that demonstrated and explained “wu chi” posture and its use for calming and relaxing. I did explain that this posture can be a qigong exercise in itself and briefly discussed “standing” – I may elaborate a little in upcoming sessions, time being the determining factor (being careful to not overwhelm also being considered.)

Secondly I demonstrated first four of the Eight brocade exercises and explained the meridians that each movement "regulated" as done in Jesse’s dvd. That took about 20 minutes with a little “follow me” practice of each of the 4 exercises. Next session we will review the first four and then cover the second four. Weeks 3-7 will be review and practice of all eight for the first part of the class.

The second qigong I teach is Tai Chi Ruler. I begin with demonstration of holding the ruler, foot placement, and breathing. There are seven exercises in the TCR being taught. Week one, Exercise #1 is demonstrated, then week two we review exercise #1 and teaching exercise #2, then the 3rd week you would review and practice #1 and 2 and demonstrate the third, etc., until all seven exercises are taught.