The Tai Chi Healthways Discussion Board

YouTube is wonderful (and a great way to waste time too ) It's a great way to discover new arts, like this Chinese Fast Wrestling I didn't know:

I found these clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzLe0V6U3fU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFVZwi8w5jQ

Looks like these guys are fairly fluid, fast and have a good rooting (especially the first clip). Some of these techniques look really similar to some Chen applications and throws. What do you think?

Some applications looks similar to taijiquan but not the same body principles

By the way take a look at this
Chinese push hand championship
http://www.56.com/u90/v_Mjk1NjA5NTE.html

By the way take a look at this
Chinese push hand championship
http://www.56.com/u90/v_Mjk1NjA5NTE.html

Andrey, this is not push hand, it is 'Shuai Jiao' or Chinese wrestling.

christine wrote:

By the way take a look at this
Chinese push hand championship
http://www.56.com/u90/v_Mjk1NjA5NTE.html

Andrey, this is not push hand, it is 'Shuai Jiao' or Chinese wrestling.

Believe it or not it's free style push hands between taijiquan practitioners. Occasionally you can find punches and kicks there, but I guess they restricted only to body and legs (not to had) Among others in the video Wan Xian's second son..

By the way between the fights you can see participant showing Chen forms (Xinjia/Laojia) bare hand and with weapons

Andrey, I'm sorry but Jesse confirmed to me it is not push hands, it's a kind of Chinese wrestling competition where, as you said, you cannot punch in the head. It's a show and obviously they mixed the wrestling with some Tai Chi demonstrations. Perhaps you can ask Jesse to confirm to you.

christine wrote:Andrey, I'm sorry but Jesse confirmed to me it is not push hands, it's a kind of Chinese wrestling competition where, as you said, you cannot punch in the head. It's a show and obviously they mixed the wrestling with some Tai Chi demonstrations. Perhaps you can ask Jesse to confirm to you.

Yes I know they are mixed in that video. Originally push hands never considered as something for competition, but rather a training method. Modern time it has become a competition which for the most part looks as wrestling. Look at this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phLBusl2BRA

Jesse did confirm today that Chinese Fast Wrestling, or Shuai Jiao, is Tai Chi fighting. Although this is not push hands per se, the only difference I can see is that Shuai Jiao has more of an emphasis on leg sweep takedowns or arm/leg sweep takedowns. It seems the natural evolution of free-step push hands is Shuai Jiao.

Jesse did confirm today that Chinese Fast Wrestling, or Shuai Jiao, is Tai Chi fighting.

Scott, what Jesse confirmed was that Shuai Jiao is 'Chinese' wrestling or fighting not 'Tai Chi' fighting. Shuai Jiao and Tai Chi Chuan are both part of Wu Shu, but Shuai Jiao is part of the external arts, while Tai Chi Chuan is part of the internal arts.

It seems the natural evolution of free-step push hands is Shuai Jiao.

Scott, What I read about Shuai Jiao is that it is a traditional Chinese fighting using 4 techniques, Da (hand boxing), Ti (feet boxing), Na (grab...), and Shuai (projections, sweep), which origin can be traced back to 1600 years BC. I don't think it can be an 'evolution' of push hands (or I misunderstood what you meant?)

Yes I know they are mixed in that video. Originally push hands never considered as something for competition, but rather a training method. Modern time it has become a competition which for the most part looks as wrestling. Look at this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phLBusl2BRA

Andrey, I agree with you, at a competition level, it all seems like some 'Chinese wrestling', and the four principles, Zhan, Nian, Lian and Sui, which I'm trying to understand and (without much success) to train in Push Hands don't seem very 'subtle' to me at this competition level.

here it is pushhands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCBSuq17F9U

Maria - Good video. I was impressed by how low they both go toward the end, yet are still able to move their feet well. Interesting "dance" at the end!

Christine - Points well taken. It is now my understanding that Shuai Jiao is a skill set that can be added to most any Chinese fighting competition. As for evolution, I was not speaking in terms of history or chronology. It seems to me the next logical level in free-step push hands would include the skill set of Shuai Jiao.

Here is another video with Chen Zhenglei :

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid= ... &plindex=1

Maria wrote::shock: here it is pushhands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCBSuq17F9U

More like a ph demo to me

andrey wrote:

Maria wrote::shock: here it is pushhands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCBSuq17F9U

More like a ph demo to me

Do you mean a demo opposed to a competition ?

Well, you are probably right.

Maria wrote:
Do you mean a demo opposed to a competition ?

Well, you are probably right.

Not quite competition, but pattern like tui shou. In the particular video they demo it to the public.

In Jesse class we do both pattern and pattern free push hands

Maria wrote:Here is another video with Chen Zhenglei :

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid= ... &plindex=1

Merci Maria! Great video with CZL, form PH . ALL is there!