The Tai Chi Healthways Discussion Board

andrey · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 230

There are two major opinions about flexible and fixed step push hands training. The first one suggests that if you start flexible step too early you may suffer by lack of proper body reaction and get bad habit of unnecessary stepping while you could have borrowed your opponent's force. The second opinon suggests that if you spend too much time in fixed step you may suffer from bad habits such excessive leaning, very low stances and others which will be punishable in flexible step.

What do you personally think of feel from your experience about that issue?

feihu · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 79

andrey wrote:

There are two major opinions about flexible and fixed step push hands training. The first one suggests that if you start flexible step too early you may suffer by lack of proper body reaction and get bad habit of unnecessary stepping while you could have borrowed your opponent's force. The second opinon suggests that if you spend too much time in fixed step you may suffer from bad habits such excessive leaning, very low stances and others which will be punishable in flexible step.

What do you personally think of feel from your experience about that issue?

Okay, I'll bite, although, you know my pov already, Andrey.

I think that fixed step, using patterns (as in the 5 levels of ph in Chen style) is the best way to begin ph. After you have learned the various fixed and stepping patterns, corrected your postures, understand the patterns and what they teach, then fixed step free pushing is good. Once you become more proficient in fixed step free pushing, then you can begin moving step free pushing.

As I have stated before on this forum, all this should be done under the supervision of a qualified teacher. Without good instruction, you might end up just spinning your wheels and not going anywhere. Unfortunately, finding good instruction in ph is hard, as many people that are teaching, just don't have the skills or experience to be of much help. Then there is the problem of getting qualified teachers to actually teach anything beyond beginning levels of ph. Sad, but there you have it, IME. Shocked

taichitsao · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13

Very good topic!! I agree with feihu's points. Here I will just add a few more evidences for you to think about. 1. When you push hands with grandmasters, they will not like to play with you totally"fixed step". They normally move their feet a little forward as they pushing you and moving a little back to have enough space to redirect our attacking. But their moves are very small. I have these type of experiences with GM Abraham Liu, as well as GM Zhu Tiancai. 2. Step serves a purpose in push hands. When you step, you need be sure you are safe to step to your opponent; when you step back, you need to know you have a application in your mind ....... Push hands is an art of martial arts! Smile

Kuroyama · Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 48

Feihu

IMO the core of your problem with finding teachers that go beyond the very basic PH, (if they go THAT far) is the same that faces modern taijiquan...

Most teachers teach flowery fists. They teach pretty movements with no understanding of what goes behind it.

I have heard and read that Chinese martial arts is in a state of emergency if you will. It can be hard to find good consistent information (especially outside of China) There are efforts underway now to document... but it remains to be seen what the future will bring.

IMO if there are more serious students that surface, then CMA has a better chance. If not, then you will see and suffer more "tai chi hippies" as "tai chi" and other traditional arts backslide into more contemporary wushu routines where pretty is best, and function... kind of gets lost in the race for gold medals and ribbons.

But that is just my opinion on the matter and should not be mistaken for fact... unless you happen to agree with me.

Train well.