The Tai Chi Healthways Discussion Board

Maurizio · Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 10

I don't know if I am off-topic here, but I would like to know something about food - I mean the point of view observed in Tai Chi or Qi Gong practice. The macrobiotic diet has a particular interpretation of yin-yang and food, but I don't believe it's the same of Chinese Traditional Medicine. Could you make clear this, or give me some suggestion about it?

Maurizio

Maria · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 164

dietetic is a part of the Traditional Chinese Medicine :

take a look here :

http://tcm.health-info.org/qigong/Introduction%20to%20Qigong.htm

http://www.nutritionadvocate.com/story/chinesemedicateddiet.html

http://www.tcminter.net/Artikel/Dietetics.htm

Razz

alain · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 65 Location: San Diego, CA

Maria wrote:

dietetic is a part of the Traditional Chinese Medicine

Absolutely. That's why, the best is to see a TCM Doctor. My Chinese doctor recommends a basic diet, and then uses herbs to fine tune the rest.

Basically, avoid read meat, dairy products, sugar, caffeine, alcohol. Eat cereals, and lots of fresh fruits and vegetable. Drink water. Avoid cold food (like ice cream) and ice cold beverages. Sea food and fish is OK, as well as duck and some chicken.

But everybody is different and has different needs. Again, only a TCM doctor can help you fine tune the diet and herbs to keep you healthy. Oh, and yes, my doctor recommends exercise. Taijiquan is a good one Wink

but don't overdo it either.

That reminds me also what the Daoists say: "when hungry, eat, when tired, sleep".

Maurizio · Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 10

Maria and Alain, thank you for your kind and accurate answers. I studied and practiced Macrobiotics in the past, but finally I found it too restrictive. I think it could be occasionally useful, for a limited period. But I am very intrigued and interested about its Yin-Yang approach to diet and medicine, sometime quite different from Yin-Yang of TCM. For istance, you can find in TCM that Yin is contractive and Yang is expansive - well, according to Macrobiotics it is true the opposite: Yang = contraction, Yin = expansion!!! It can be understood, they say, observing that the focus of TCM is on energetical aspects (movement, activity and passivity), and the focus of Macrobiotics is on material and physical aspects (consistency, toughness and tenderness). I think it could be accepted, even though the risk is a lot of confusion! Anyway, I like the wide TCM approach, where everything and every food or substance can be medicine if used in the right way and individually.

Maria · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 164

it is the first time I read yin is expansion. The TCM is based on the book of changes (yi jing) as well as qigong and taiji and, to my knowledge, yin is never expansion.

If you take the symbolism of the yi jing : yin is like the earth, receptive, yang is like the sky active, I do not see how to explain yin is expansion Question

jb · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 146

The following are just a few of dual but natural opposing examples of Yin & Yang:

YIN YANG
Negative Positive
Passive Active
Female Male
Disruptive Creative
Dark Light
Black White
Night Day
Cold Hot
Soft Hard
Wet Dry
Winter Summer
Yield Attack
Light Heavy
Internal External
Slow Fast
Calm Violent
Sorrow Joy
Crying Laughter
Quiet Loud
Harmony Conflict
Earth Sky
Empty Full
Descend Ascend
Internal External
Contract Expand

_________________
jb

Maurizio · Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 10

Maria, I understand your perplexity, that in some way is mine too... Rolling Eyes

Anyway I don't believe the Macrobiotic theory is wrong, because I imagine Yin-Yang as terms of a relativity in constant change, even conceptually. Shocked

The Yijing includes broken (Yin) and unbroken (Yang) lines, where the first ones have no cohesion, they are tender. Everything without cohesion is - according to a physical/structural point of view - expanding and relaxing, like corporeal tissues retaining water - that is Yin! On the contrary something tough, very cohesive, is similar to a contracting muscle - that is Yang! Very Happy

For these reasons Macrobiotics value fruits as extremely Yin and meat as extremely Yang. They prefer to eat food not so extreme, more balanced, like grain and vegetables.

alain · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 65 Location: San Diego, CA

Maurizio wrote:

Anyway, I like the wide TCM approach, where everything and every food or substance can be medicine if used in the right way and individually.

Absolutely. We tend to forget that in our modern (???) societies. Pre-processed food kills everything. It is also interesting to look at traditional diets; they usually have good combination of food and are pretty balanced. Mediterranean diet is a good example.

Maria · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 164

Maurizio wrote:

Maria, I understand your perplexity, that in some way is mine too... Rolling Eyes

They prefer to eat food not so extreme, more balanced, like grain and vegetables.

There is always a problem when some people use terms in another context than the one where thoses terms has been created.

For the TCM it is too simple to say : fruit are yin. In fact : orange, peer, melon are yin while apple, strawberry are yang.

beef, rabbit, lamb are yin while duck, salmon are yang.

much more complex than simply fruit = yin, meat = yang.

http://www.nutritionadvocate.com/story/yin_yang.html

Maurizio · Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 10

Maria wrote:

For the TCM it is too simple to say : fruit are yin. In fact : orange, peer, melon are yin while apple, strawberry are yang.

Yes, I agree with you. Also Macrobiotics distinguish inside a category: for instance they say too that, between fruits, apple and strawberry are yang. Regard to meat, beef is yin and lamb is yang... But in general, fruit is yin (rich of water, expanded, few substance) and meat is yang (solid, dense, strong). It is important the cooking procedure indeed: if you cook in water, boiling, it is more yin; if you grill it is more yang. If you don't cook, that is yin!

I am not a macrobiotic adherent at present, but I practiced this kind of diet for a few years. To tell the truth it was a good experience, and it was healty. But now I think it's better a diet more varied and... relaxed! Yin-yang is a very good guide, a compass, but it's important not to be rigid and schematic and to pay attention at individual feelings and needs. Nevertheless I have been vegetarian for 33 years! Wink

Maria · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 164

thank you, for me macrobiotic is just a word.I know nothing about it, but I entirely agree with you : first our own feelongs and needs. Razz

jb · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 146

I'm no expert on diet. However, about 12 months ago I stopped eating cheese and milk and other dairy stuff. I feel much better -- more awake, and I don't get cheese cravings and 'cheese headaches' any more.

_________________
jb

Maurizio · Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 10

About milk, dairy products and cheese I know that according to TCM they nourish Qi and blood, expecially regard to heart, lungs and stomach. In the opinion of Macrobiotics mature cheese is more Yang, fresh cheese is more Yin. But there is a contraindication: they produce "moisture" (a concept of chinese medicine): an excess of that could be detrimental to health, particularly in our "modern" diet, rich of fats and overabundant. In other words these kinds of food could result too Yin (lack of energy, swellings, allergies, obesity, etc.). Nevertheless it depends on individual needs and situation. For instance when you do a lot of breathing exercises (Pranayama) in Yoga practice, they say you must drink milk and eat dairy products, because it is necessary some "mucus" to help and protect lungs...

jb · Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 146

Maurizio wrote:

About milk, dairy products and cheese I know that according to TCM they nourish Qi and blood, expecially regard to heart, lungs and stomach. Nevertheless it depends on individual needs and situation.

it depends on individual needs

Yes, I agree, we are all unique & our needs are unique. We have to find what works for us.

_________________
jb