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alain
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 65
Location: San Diego, CA
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: Chinese Fast Wrestling |
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YouTube is wonderful (and a great way to waste time too  ) It's a great way to discover new arts, like this Chinese Fast Wrestling I didn't know:
I found these clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzLe0V6U3fU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFVZwi8w5jQ
Looks like these guys are fairly fluid, fast and have a good rooting (especially the first clip). Some of these techniques look really similar to some Chen applications and throws. What do you think? |
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andrey
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese Fast Wrestling |
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Some applications looks similar to taijiquan but not the same body principles
By the way take a look at this
Chinese push hand championship
http://www.56.com/u90/v_Mjk1NjA5NTE.html |
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christine
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Andrey, this is not push hand, it is 'Shuai Jiao' or Chinese wrestling.
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andrey
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| christine wrote: |
Andrey, this is not push hand, it is 'Shuai Jiao' or Chinese wrestling. |
Believe it or not it's free style push hands between taijiquan practitioners. Occasionally you can find punches and kicks there, but I guess they restricted only to body and legs (not to had) Among others in the video Wan Xian's second son..
By the way between the fights you can see participant showing Chen forms (Xinjia/Laojia) bare hand and with weapons |
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christine
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Andrey, I'm sorry but Jesse confirmed to me it is not push hands, it's a kind of Chinese wrestling competition where, as you said, you cannot punch in the head. It's a show and obviously they mixed the wrestling with some Tai Chi demonstrations. Perhaps you can ask Jesse to confirm to you.
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andrey
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| christine wrote: | | Andrey, I'm sorry but Jesse confirmed to me it is not push hands, it's a kind of Chinese wrestling competition where, as you said, you cannot punch in the head. It's a show and obviously they mixed the wrestling with some Tai Chi demonstrations. Perhaps you can ask Jesse to confirm to you. |
Yes I know they are mixed in that video. Originally push hands never considered as something for competition, but rather a training method. Modern time it has become a competition which for the most part looks as wrestling. Look at this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phLBusl2BRA |
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Scott
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: Chinese Fast Wrestling |
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Jesse did confirm today that Chinese Fast Wrestling, or Shuai Jiao, is Tai Chi fighting. Although this is not push hands per se, the only difference I can see is that Shuai Jiao has more of an emphasis on leg sweep takedowns or arm/leg sweep takedowns. It seems the natural evolution of free-step push hands is Shuai Jiao.
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christine
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Jesse did confirm today that Chinese Fast Wrestling, or Shuai Jiao, is Tai Chi fighting. |
Scott, what Jesse confirmed was that Shuai Jiao is 'Chinese' wrestling or fighting not 'Tai Chi' fighting. Shuai Jiao and Tai Chi Chuan are both part of Wu Shu, but Shuai Jiao is part of the external arts, while Tai Chi Chuan is part of the internal arts.
| Quote: | | It seems the natural evolution of free-step push hands is Shuai Jiao. |
Scott, What I read about Shuai Jiao is that it is a traditional Chinese fighting using 4 techniques, Da (hand boxing), Ti (feet boxing), Na (grab...), and Shuai (projections, sweep), which origin can be traced back to 1600 years BC. I don't think it can be an 'evolution' of push hands (or I misunderstood what you meant?)
| Quote: |
Yes I know they are mixed in that video. Originally push hands never considered as something for competition, but rather a training method. Modern time it has become a competition which for the most part looks as wrestling. Look at this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phLBusl2BRA
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Andrey, I agree with you, at a competition level, it all seems like some 'Chinese wrestling', and the four principles, Zhan, Nian, Lian and Sui, which I'm trying to understand and (without much success) to train in Push Hands don't seem very 'subtle' to me at this competition level. |
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Maria
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Scott
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: Chinese Fast Wrestling |
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Maria - Good video. I was impressed by how low they both go toward the end, yet are still able to move their feet well. Interesting "dance" at the end!
Christine - Points well taken. It is now my understanding that Shuai Jiao is a skill set that can be added to most any Chinese fighting competition. As for evolution, I was not speaking in terms of history or chronology. It seems to me the next logical level in free-step push hands would include the skill set of Shuai Jiao.
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Maria
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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andrey
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 230
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Maria
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 163
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andrey
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Maria wrote: |
Do you mean a demo opposed to a competition ?
Well, you are probably right. |
Not quite competition, but pattern like tui shou. In the particular video they demo it to the public.
In Jesse class we do both pattern and pattern free push hands |
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Isabelle
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Merci Maria! Great video with CZL, form PH . ALL is there!
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here it is pushhands
